Pollution revamp visions

Please add a description of your vision for what you want pollution to be. These are not considered final, but rather something we can vote on to get a direction on where we want to be heading with this revamp.

Mission Statement
To turn pollution into less of an "Oh, that's annoying" and more of a "Oh, that's actually really cool" sort of deal. Pollution as it is now is far too tedious with zero reason to be.

Key solutions

 * Make high pollution effects mostly cosmetic.
 * Maintain beneficial effects at low pollution levels. This could include:
 * Increased crop yields
 * Increased machine efficiency
 * Improvements on existing Thaumcraft nodes
 * Increased passive generation rates (i.e. solar, water tank siding)

Explanation

 * Cosmetic effects: Many of the current effects are simply painful and not really in the spirit of the pack. Why should you need to wear a hazmat suit everywhere just to look at your shiny new factory? Instead, there should be such effects as sun light levels decreasing, and other minor aesthetic changes.
 * Beneficial effects: To regain some of the results of the current punitive functionality, players should be encouraged to seek lower pollution levels with benefits involved in doing so. This can also make it more likely for a player to actually enable the mechanic rather than keeping it disabled, in order to reap the benefits. Currently, many just disable pollution due to the pure annoyance. Pollution should be a mechanic that, while you can ignore it and still have a perfectly fine playing experience, still offers something good to players with it enabled, if they are willing to put in enough effort in reducing levels.

Pollution issues atm
as of now, imho, pollution fails in two regards. on one had, the detriments it offers are horrible gameplay wise. the only tangible detriment is the crop destruction, but as crops don't produce pollution, you can always keep the two separate. on the other hand, the removal mechanics we have are pretty awful. the single block GT++ scrubbers are by far the best option for all tiers.

solutions
i think we could make pollution a lot more fun by changing the focus on the downsides from primarily the player, to primarily the players constructs. lower generator efficiencies, reduce processing speed, decrease time between maintenance issues, etc. focusing more on the large infra the player creates, not only creates a neat loop of needing to possibly generate more pollution in order to remove any, but also gives a more sizable detriment. the player themselves might not enjoy being blinded, or given nausea, but it doesn't harm your progression very much. in fact, in my opinion, it's more of a visual annoyance rather than a motivation to reduce pollution. if your machines are impacted instead of you, there's now a much larger, less easy to avoid problem. this will ensure that pollution is an effective mechanic, and dealing with it won't just be ideal, but borderline mandatory

on the reduction side, we probably don't want to keep relying on shitty single blocks for all removal. it would be nice to see the multi block scrubber given some love. possibly filtering more pollution with higher voltages, or different tiers of filters. this also gives the cool outputs we can give players from recycling the dirty filters. id suggest removing the EV+ scrubbers, and reducing the speeds on LV-HV to really only effectively work pre moon tiers. this gives a nice scaling unique infra setup to handle pollution, some possibly useful byproducts, and overall a better pollution handling system

TLDR: potion effects aren't great detriments for large scale machinery. mess with the players setups more, and ask more of them to reduce that. in contrast, give a little benefit from processing the polluted filters to give some benefit to the whole process

DvDmanDT's updated vision (July 2021)
Since Dream has made it very clear that he wants pollution to remain bad and evil, I've revised my vision to fit with his wishes, yet hopefully yield a bit more fun and interesting gameplay than it has currently. Bold parts are additions or highlights that I think are important to make it fun with these requirements.

Mission Statement
The goal is to use pollution to make more choices viable and interesting in progression. It's strictly a balancing mechanic that can be used to give a weak machine/generator with nothing going for it a little edge over its alternatives.

Key points

 * Pollution should not be destructive (as in cause damages to constructions or setups). No block changes, no mob damages, no biome alterations etc.
 * Pollution needs to be much less local, yet not global.
 * There should always be an alternative or counter to (heavy) pollution production, such as chimneys.
 * It's not about realism, it's about having a mechanic that yields fun, interesting and varied gameplay
 * It's a gameplay rework, not an optimization pass. Some performance implications may be acceptable, but reasonable care must be taken to ensure to ensure no game breaking performance degradations.

Pollution can be negative

 * Pollution pulls towards 0, that is neutral. At 0, there are no effects at all.
 * If pollution levels get high..
 * Basically current effects, but with revised levels etc.
 * I'm definitely not sure about these points anymore, but I think it would be cool to give a bonus to players going out of their way to be environment friendly.
 * If pollution drops below 0, various light buffs start to happen. Note, I'm thinking between 5% to 25% increases, nothing completely game breaking.
 * Bees yielding more output?
 * Crops growing faster or yielding more output?
 * Fish traps increased yield efficient?

Smoke stacks / pollution processing

 * Chimneys! A simple chimney can be placed on a muffler that reduces output by X percent based on how tall it is, and how high up the top is. Similarly, there can be large multiblock chimneys that can accept the pollution output from multiple machines and with optional scrubbing inserts.
 * Machines produce pollution similar to currently (but with revised numbers!), but if you place a fluid container/pipe on the muffler, a pollution fluid can be captured. This fluid can be sent to a processing thing to reduce pollution and extract resources.
 * If the fluid is not captured, or if it's voided or similar, nothing happens, but if you process it, you can bring pollution level down again.
 * (optional) There can be different processing modules with different cleaning efficiency and outputs
 * What about single blocks generators etc? Just have them generate the fluid and void if not captured?
 * Temporary producers like rockets should perhaps produce less pollution (if at all), or produce "smog" which could be some short lived entities poisoning nearby players without protection etc.
 * There can still be standalone air filters, single or multiblock, but they should be less effective in terms of energy and filter items compared to filtering the source, and mostly intended to deal with many small contributors as opposed to large and heavy producers.

Revise what produces pollution

 * At the moment, there's a lot of stuff producing pollution that has no business producing pollution, or at least nowhere near the levels of pollution they are producing. Nothing should produce ridiculous amounts of pollution just because it's powerful or late game, or because it makes sense from a "lore"/realism perspective. If it does, it should do so to discourage (not prevent!) it's use (ie, it's stupidly OP or there's a more interesting alternative). For machinery where large amounts of pollution make a lof of sense and is part of main progression, there should be counters, like the smoke stack setups.
 * It could make sense to also tie pollution levels to fuels rather than generator types. For solids, I don't think it matters too much but it could make some fluids more interesting. For example, bio diesel could cause less pollution than regular.

Other ways to reduce pollution
These are loose ideas.
 * There's been a lot of talk about having plant life reduce pollution levels. I think that make sense, but it's tricky to do well without major performance implications.
 * Perhaps a plant/tree reaching it's final state would flat out subtract a bit of pollution? Care must be taken to not encourage tree planting spam just to bring down pollution though.
 * Trying to keep track of some rough estimation of leaf blocks or whatever in each chunk and subtract by that? Wouldn't have to be super accurate, maybe you could update each loaded chunk once per minute or less and only count connected "green" blocks that see the sky or something? Very tricky from a performance perspective..
 * Perhaps some "green" machinery would just artifically drag it down, like kinetics or solars. Doesn't make any sense from a reality perspective, but again, it's about gameplay rather than realism.

Make pollution spread more

 * Pollution should be less local than currently. At the moment, it's basically chunk-local until you reach absurd levels. It needs to do a better job at covering a "base".
 * (implementation detail) My proposal is to move the pollution data storage and processing out of the chunk and into a new much coarser grid structure, maybe 4x4 chunks or coarser. Ideally I'd even like a hex grid just to spread it in more of a circular shape, but the annoyance of working with hexagons might just not be worth it. The idea is to be able to work with this grid without loading as many chunks and to need less processing. Things like getPollutionInChunk etc could be forwarded to lookup the value in the new structure instead of its own data.
 * If we do this, we definitely need to adjust pollution production levels and/or effect thresholds as a bigger pollution space would make more machines contribute to the same space. Or perhaps just a divisor.

Mission Statement
The goal is to use pollution to make more choices viable and interesting in progression. It's strictly a balancing mechanic that can be used to give a weak machine/generator with nothing going for it a little edge over its alternatives.

Key points

 * Pollution should not be destructive (as in cause damages to constructions or setups). No block changes, no mob damages, no biome alterations etc.
 * There should always be an alternative or counter to (heavy) pollution production
 * All numbers should be revised. Some things that are currently producing should perhaps not and vice versa.
 * It's not about realism, it's about having a mechanic that yields fun, interesting and varied gameplay
 * It's a gameplay rework, not an optimization pass. Some performance implications may be acceptable, but reasonable care must be taken to ensure to ensure no game breaking performance degradations.

Pollution can be negative

 * Pollution pulls towards 0, that is neutral. At 0, there are no effects at all.
 * If pollution drops below 0, various light buffs start to happen. Note, I'm thinking between 5% to 25% increases, nothing completely game breaking.
 * Bees yielding more output?
 * Crops growing faster or yielding more output?
 * Fish traps increased yield efficient?
 * If pollution levels get high..
 * Visually indicate this somehow. Maybe the current smog effect but capped and significantly scaled back? Maybe do some light "graying" fullscreen effect to make the world feel a bit sad? But again, minor effects, nothing too crazy.
 * Could block update (not sure about the technical term, but the thing that turns dirt into grass) rates be slightly reduced in heavily polluted areas?

Smoke stacks / pollution processing

 * Machines produce pollution similar to currently (but with revised numbers!), but if you place a fluid container/pipe on the muffler, a pollution fluid can be captured. This fluid can be sent to a processing thing to reduce pollution and extract resources.
 * If the fluid is not captured, or if it's voided or similar, nothing happens, but if you process it, you can bring pollution level down again.
 * (optional) There can be different processing modules with different cleaning efficiency and outputs
 * What about single blocks generators etc? Just have them generate the fluid and void if not captured?
 * Temporary producers like rockets should perhaps produce less pollution (if at all), or produce "smog" which could be some short lived entities poisoning nearby players without protection etc.

Revise what produces pollution

 * At the moment, there's a lot of stuff producing pollution that has no business producing pollution, or at least nowhere near the levels of pollution they are producing. Nothing should produce ridiculous amounts of pollution just because it's powerful or late game, or because it makes sense from a "lore"/realism perspective. If it does, it should do so to discourage (not prevent!) it's use (ie, it's stupidly OP or there's a more interesting alternative). For machinery where large amounts of pollution make a lof of sense and is part of main progression, there should be counters, like the smoke stack setups.
 * It could make sense to also tie pollution levels to fuels rather than generator types. For solids, I don't think it matters too much but it could make some fluids more interesting.

Other ways to reduce pollution
These are loose ideas.
 * There's been a lot of talk about having plant life reduce pollution levels. I think that make sense, but it's tricky to do well without major performance implications.
 * Perhaps a plant/tree reaching it's final state would flat out subtract a bit of pollution? Care must be taken to not encourage tree planting spam just to bring down pollution though.
 * Trying to keep track of some rough estimation of leaf blocks or whatever in each chunk and subtract by that? Wouldn't have to be super accurate, maybe you could update each loaded chunk once per minute or less and only count connected "green" blocks that see the sky or something? Very tricky from a performance perspective..
 * Perhaps some "green" machinery would just artifically drag it down, like kinetics or solars. Doesn't make any sense from a reality perspective, but again, it's about gameplay rather than realism.

Make pollution spread more

 * Pollution should be less local than currently. At the moment, it's basically chunk-local until you reach absurd levels. It needs to do a better job at covering a "base".
 * (implementation detail) My proposal is to move the pollution data storage and processing out of the chunk and into a new much coarser grid structure, maybe 4x4 chunks or coarser. Ideally I'd even like a hex grid just to spread it in more of a circular shape, but the annoyance of working with hexagons might just not be worth it. The idea is to be able to work with this grid without loading as many chunks and to need less processing. Things like getPollutionInChunk etc could be forwarded to lookup the value in the new structure instead of its own data.

MrJakobLaich
Little rundown / TL;DR:


 * Pollution fills way too fast before you get to HV and make the nanosuit, make it appear slower, the pack is very long and you have enough time to suffer
 * Hazmat suit sucks (A LOT), add one more hazmat suit before nanosuit, remove repair recipe, buff hazmat suit durability and instead use the thaumcraft restorer to repair them
 * Add air respirators, which are put into the galacticcraft slots, which make breathing with the hazmat suit possible (you don't breath inside a plastic bag afterall) or add filtering gadgets for the suit
 * Change the different effects the player experiences from pollution so you first notice "a problem" and have enough time to put on a suit, later on, because of massive pollution, it becomes a much bigger problem to run around unprotected
 * All flowers should turn into dead bushes
 * Vegetation / in-world effects should "use up" some off the pollution (dying leaves on a tree for example, they take some pollution away)
 * Pollution per chunk sucks.

Two solutions for the last point:


 * 1) Make "above-ground (can see the sky)"-pollution not chunk wise but 8x8 "block" of chunks (so 128x128 normal blocks)
 * 2) Make "below-ground (is inside a sealed cave"-pollution stay sealed down there, afterall that stuff down there has no access to the outside.

Bombcar says:

Anyways, that's the recap, have fun reading all the stuff about it :)

Insanely long 7 pages on my browser text wall:

Regarding QOTD ("Questions of the day: Why do we need pollution?  What good does it do?")

Pollution feels cool because it's more realistic than "hehe just power the machine and don't worry"

But right now it's just filling a chunk and giving you some annoying side effects (pretty fast from my experience too)

Also, the hazmat suit has way too little durability D:

So a couple of ideas:


 * 1) Make pollution appear slower, the pack goes on for a long time, no need to fill everything with pollution within days
 * 2) Add 1 more hazmat suits so you don't have to repair the low tech hazmat suit 800 times because you fell 4 blocks and it breaks your boots or because you touched a steam pipe and it completely melts away your whole suit, you just make the better one with rubber / polyethylene in MV and in HV upgrade to nano anyways

Also, repairing the hazmat suit is currently more annoying than just making a new one, kinda weird

So, you have the refined glue suit, low durability but better than nothing

Advanced hazmat suit makes sense but is kind of meh to make (annoying recipe for something that everyone's basically forced this much to use) and also can't be repaired AFAIK, needs to use an MV-circuit instead of an HV one, then the recipes would be okay

Give it a bit more protection too, it's advanced afterall

Polyethylene end-of-MV power hazmat suit with good durability and offering even a bit of protection (little less than iron would be okay imo, still bad compared to everything at that tier but better than the other hazmat suits)

REASON for this:

You have so much pollution that you are forced to wear the hazmat suits anyways so it's either extremely annoying because you have to repair them every 3 seconds (currently) and we buff the suit (or add higher tier suits) or we nerf the pollution, which is what I'll talk about next (remember, buff is most of the time better than nerf xD)

Asked Alastor's Game (Fuel Force) (he's the magic person when I have any magic questions xD)

And thaumic restorer could repair this stuff much easier than any crafting recipe so I'd say we remove the hazmat suit repair recipe and give the refined glue suit a bit more durability

Restorer is MV, you just need ender eyes which can be traded for, but I'd prefer it if the ender eye recipe got some thaumcraft equivalent so people don't instantly see that you can get them in MV, normal recipe is HV afterall... (why?), if we keep the HV recipe nobody would ever even notice that the thaumcraft one even exists lol

You get poly and then mid-end MV you use it to make some better hazmat suit and stay in your new skin until you get the nano suit

3) most of the effects that pollution give you currently are there to make you stop polluting, to put on your hazmat suit or start air filtering, see above what I think about them lol

I currently have one chunk with 300k+ gibbl and going up at about 40 per second

If the wiki is still correct then I had at least 750k at some point, which is a lot considering that that wasn't that long since 2.1.2 came out

So, imo the pollution should go up a bit slower than it is right now, at least for LV machines

(Yes, I know about air scrubbers but that's not the point right now, I'll maybe get to that too)

The effect tiers should be changed, you should notice a change before you get f'ed up by it

So, different tiers

The first ones for noticing, shouldn't affect gameplay too much

The second one for actually hampering gameplay, should make you seriously consider putting on the (mandatory...) hazmat suit, you still have some time before you can't anymore

The third for breaking you if you haven't put on the suit

The fourth "you die lol" when you somehow made it through the last tier without having a hazmat suit on

Every tier should also add a randomly selected number of effects from (all) lower tiers of effects too

Also, the lower the tier compared to the current pollution effect tier the higher the effect duration and effect level

So, tier 3 could have 1 tier 3 effect and any tier 2 and any tier 1 effect too, good luck with that lol

So, for example, t3 pollution levels could have poison 1 for 23s, slowness 2 for 40s, mining fatigue 2 for 35s, hunger 3 for 40s and weakness 3 for 30s

T1 weakness (10-20s), hunger (5-10s), nausea (3s)

T2 slowness (10-30s), mining fatigue (20s)

T3 blindness (20-40s), poison (20-30s)

T4 wither (random duration 40-120s, yeah 120 for people with many hearts :troll:, as I said, good luck with this)

I'd add more effects to this but idk what Volatility or Ill Fitting do so I can't really use them for this :shrug:

Also, I'd add some warp effects too, like the one that makes the screen completely dark instead of just the blindness debuff, then I could add more tiers for pollution, which would be nice Before I do the vegetation and world effects, I'll list some warp effects that would make a bit of sense from what they sound like, maybe we could add some to the pollution stuff

Before I do the vegetation and world effects, I'll list some warp effects that would make a bit of sense from what they sound like, maybe we could add some to the pollution stuff

Insomnia, but make it say "You cough yourself awake" or something like that, probably T2 or T3

Thunderstorm, you ruined the environment T3 or T4

Whatever gives you the completely dark screen warp effect, put that into T3 instead of blindness and put blindness (10-20s) into T2 Huh, that's it lol, there's not much more there that looks good imo

Huh, that's it lol, there's not much more there that looks good imo

Regarding gadgets, GC slots and stuff like that

We could add some air tank you have to use, afterall you can't really breath inside a plastic bag, so why should you be able to inside a hazmat suit without air tanks

We could add some low tech breathing equipment and stuff like that, different tiers of course, who doesn't like upgrading their stuff from time to time

So, probably 4 tiers of breathing stuff until you can make the nano suit

Put the hazmat suit on and it protects you from pollution stuff

But when you put on the hazmat suit you slowly lose oxygen, same as when you are under water

Put the breathing stuff into the gadget slot and you don't lose air

Air capacity depends on breathing stuff tier, first tier works for 1h, second for 3h, third tier for 8h and fourth tier for 12h (anything less is

bad because just the suit is already annoying enough)

Refill them by crafting together with an (or multiple in case of higher tier ones) oxygen cell, shouldn't consume the empty cell I still don't have anything in the slots except for the holo glasses so the GC, witching gadgets from Alastor and tinkers should be fine, probably should use the gadgets or GC slots, probably gadgets ones, I'd not use tinkers because you maybe make the extra hearts things at some point so either GC or WG, I don't think both matter because when you make the GC space suit it should automatically do the oxygen thing anyways (same with the nano suit and everything else later on) so once you have that all you don't need it in the GC slot anyways

I still don't have anything in the slots except for the holo glasses so the GC, witching gadgets from Alastor and tinkers should be fine, probably should use the gadgets or GC slots, probably gadgets ones, I'd not use tinkers because you maybe make the extra hearts things at some point so either GC or WG, I don't think both matter because when you make the GC space suit it should automatically do the oxygen thing anyways (same with the nano suit and everything else later on) so once you have that all you don't need it in the GC slot anyways

So, putting stuff into the GalacticCraft slots should work until HV when you have to make the space suit, the GC slots aren't used until then and after that you shouldn't need the hazmat suit anymore because you have either the GC space suit or the nanosuit Bombcar says:

Bombcar says:

"The real deal is pollution isn’t fun"

This (see what bombcar says :P) is exactly what I'm trying to fix, the main issues I see are:

1) Pollution right now is only barebones, not really much to it except "let's bully people into using the hazmat suit and air scrubbers"

2) hazmat suit sucks, way too low durability so you have to repair it every 3 seconds, see top part of this message

3) yeah, it's annoying and that's it, only negative stuff that doesn't have much reason to it (Negative pollution, "very clean air" would also be interesting, will maybe get to writing about that at some point later)

(Negative pollution, "very clean air" would also be interesting, will maybe get to writing about that at some point later)

Alright, vegetation and whatever's gonna happen to your blocks

I'll only write down what additional stuff we could do or what we could change

I think most of the vegetation stuff is alright the way it is, just a few tweaks

All flowers should turn into dead bushes, idk why they would drop as an item, if you plant stuff in pollution then that's on you anyways, that's why we have T1 and T2 as warnings, if you still have plants when you get to T2-T3 levels it's your fault Quick input regarding when what tier happens because I'd forget otherwise:

Quick input regarding when what tier happens because I'd forget otherwise:

(remember, pollution would happen a bit slower than currently, so 100k should happen a lot slower than instantly)

T1 happens at 100k gibbl, that's the warning, so no big debuffs

T2 happens at 300k, this is where you actually get annoyed and bullied by the game so you start using the hazmat constantly

T3 happens at 750k, vegetation destruction happens at 600k, plants don't like bad air... (dead plants would also be a good warning for you if you somehow still haven't made a hazmat suit)

T4 is at 1M gibbl, for now there's no tier above that

T5 is probably around 1.25M - 1.5M gibbl (I don't yet know what could happen player wise beyond this point)

Sour rain is at 900k gibbl

Late game you probably have air filters running 24/7

Alright, back to plants All flowers should turn into dead bushes

All flowers should turn into dead bushes

Cropsticks should become the "Dead Grass" item from "Biomes O' Plenty" and drop the cropstick

If we want to break people we just switch the plant on the cropstick to weed, that'd be !FUN!, good luck if you don't notice that (you should, after all you get enough warnings) Alright, I don't have any plant ideas anymore, I'll add more when I figure something out

Alright, I don't have any more plant ideas, I'll add more when I figure something out

Oh, yeah, also: When a tree grows it should remove some amount of pollution, when any vegetation thing happens it should remove some pollution

When a tree grows it should remove some amount of pollution, when any vegetation thing happens it should remove some pollution

So, if a flower gets turned into a bush it removes, made up number for now, 1k gibbl

So if you plant enough trees early on it should reduce pollution by a bit, lowest tech air scrubber

ANY pollution effect should reduce pollution by some amount, afterall it some reaction which uses pollution as a component

It just shouldn't be an insane amount, just enough to reduce it by a bit if you have a tree farm for example

On we go to biomes

I do remember someone talking about how pollution could change a biome into some wasteland and I really like the idea

In T5 (gotta figure some stuff for this at some point) we could change water into wastewater and lava into stone, that'd be cool maybe Making water become wastewater and same with lava would break rock breakers (well, that's a good thing, because pollution shouldn't just have an effect on the player, but also machines and other stuff)

Making water become wastewater and same with lava would break rock breakers (well, that's a good thing, because pollution shouldn't just have an effect on the player, but also machines and other stuff)

Should also do stuff to animals, slowness, poison, wither, etc, they are alive after all Also, what I noticed is chunkwise pollution is a little bit small, maybe making it 8x8 chunks would be cooler, that way you don't have one 500k chunk and one 13k chunk next to each other, also make a generator 8² chunk only leak into the 8 8² chunks next to it and not any further, that way you get a 192x192 block of polluted chunks

Also, what I noticed is chunkwise pollution is a little bit small, maybe making it 8x8 chunks would be cooler, that way you don't have one 500k chunk and one 13k chunk next to each other, also make a generator 8² chunk only leak into the 8 8² chunks next to it and not any further, that way you get a 192x192 block of polluted chunks

God, I really hope putting pollution into ungenerated chunks doesn't break the game LMAO

If it would then, yeah, idk, having one chunk with 500k and one with 13k makes no sense, so maybe at least make it be 64x64 blocks instead of one chunk that stores pollution Pollution above ground should spread / go away way faster, because there's a LOT of space outside for stuff to disperse to

Pollution above ground should spread / go away way faster, because there's a LOT of space outside for stuff to disperse to

Also, the main idea here:

Pollution is everywhere in a chunk, even if I make a hole in the ground, put the machine inside and seal it, somehow the pollution is above ground D:

Pollution inside a mountain should stay down there, that way you have a reason for the air scrubbers and all that, maybe even air vents and things like that

I do realize that calculating some A* route to the outside every few ticks is going to tank TPS by a massive amount but we could

1) spread it out over multiple ticks (we're kind of doing something like that for pollution already in the pollution controller)

2) make the route grid bigger, so instead of every block we only check every second block or some variation of this, but that could become a problem so I'd not recommend this at all

3) We take a faster but less precise A* algorithm? (has been about a year since I've looked into this stuff so I gotta read about that again)

4) idk, give me some better ideas

We apparently just call if(block.getWorld.getHighestBlockYAt(block.getLocation) == block.getBlockY) for every block we come across while we check stuff (if there's a better way to check if any random block is "outside" then please tell me, because this is the best thing I could come up with :p)

We could also limit the size of whatever cave we check to 100x100x40 blocks or something, at if we go above that we assume it's outside or something like that

That way you could make a "cleanroom" for your plants (probably outside) and a "dirtyroom" with your machines (and a real cleanroom inside that lol)

DISCORD discussion I had with bombcar after all this stuff: (I cut out all other discussions because they didn't really add anything that new to what I've had alreaady written up there)

bombcar — heute um 04:56 Uhr

The chunks now store pollution “underground” if you will

So I think it can spread without chunk loads

Same way oil works

Also 500k next to 13k should balance out

Dissipation may need tuning if that persists

bombcar — heute um 04:59 Uhr

You’re trying to solve the same problem

As the oxygen on space station

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 04:59 Uhr

Then I'm really for 8x8 chunk blocks for storing pollution and spreading to all 8 blocks around it, but not further

Instead of using normal chunks, because this way most of your base would have kind of the same pollution level and not like it is now, have 300k here and not really any pollution 3 trees over in the next chunks

bombcar — heute um 04:59 Uhr

And likely the “flooding” code from hydrodam is the way to do it

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:00 Uhr

Oh yeah that's a thing, I've never really used much of GC so I didn't remember xD

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:00 Uhr

That sounds promising

bombcar — heute um 05:00 Uhr

Problem with anything like that is you can abuse the mechanics

And separate by a chunk to get perfectly clean

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:01 Uhr

What do you mean?

bombcar — heute um 05:01 Uhr

If you have a hell chunk

And it will ONLy spred to the 8 around it

And then stop

You move two chunks away and you’re fine

So you chunkload and remote control and ignore he pollution

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:02 Uhr

Yeah but that's why I'd make it not chunk based but 8-chunks by 8-chunks

So 128x128 blocks

So you have an area of 384x 384 where it should equalize the pollution

24x24 chunks total

bombcar — heute um 05:03 Uhr

Yeah that’s closer to what we should have

But I don’t know the spread rate

Too slow and you get pollutiontowers

Too fast and it dissipate who cares

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:04 Uhr

Also, this way you could actually see pollution ruining your forests and stuff and it would take all machines into account

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:04 Uhr

I'd play around and at some point it's gonna be good enough

bombcar — heute um 05:04 Uhr

I think this

Could be interesting

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:05 Uhr

That's why I said, it's not gonna dissipate into anything further than the next "chunkblock"

bombcar — heute um 05:05 Uhr

Make Polly debuffs not hit you for like 10m

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:05 Uhr

So it's contained and if you produce too much it's still gonna fill the center block

bombcar — heute um 05:05 Uhr

Then build at chunk block borders

Like@old sims Oct

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:05 Uhr

polly?

oh

bombcar — heute um 05:05 Uhr

Old SimCity

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:05 Uhr

pollution

bombcar — heute um 05:05 Uhr

Pollution

Here’s my idea

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:05 Uhr

That's not gonna do much because it's a 128x128 border

You'd have to make your base MASSIVE

bombcar — heute um 05:06 Uhr

If Polly doesn’t hit you until 10m@pr so

You have a reason to build railroads

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:06 Uhr

Like, so massive it's useless in MV

bombcar — heute um 05:06 Uhr

To your bbfs

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:06 Uhr

Which is cool

MrJakobLaich (HV) — heute um 05:06 Uhr

oh yeah true but they'd have to be way less expensive

You'd need an insane amount of stuff for that

Also, we can change pollution limits, that's why I said, you should first notice small debuffs before it hits you with wither and stuff like that

So you have time to adapt and fix stuff

because otherwise your plants just vanish over a night

In server chunkloading cases

I'll add all this to the github message

Good convo stuff

bombcar — heute um 05:11 Uhr

what we need really

are userstories

These are all my ideas regarding pollution and what I think would be cool, if you like or dislike something, please tell me what I could improve about it :)